ChrisNH From United States, joined Jun 1999, 2698 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6633 times:
OK gang. The powers that be have started thread #5 for us here, and there are several topics of interest to New England:
1) The 'new' Delta...do our airports lose further lift than we already have now that Northwest is in their grasp? Will they do to our service to DTW and MSP what they have already done to our service to ATL?
2) Will Southwest start service at Logan in 2009 or beyond?
3) Will Pease ever see commercial air service again? Is there an airline as willing as Skybus was to fly to obscure airports like Pease & Westover?
4) Virgin America...is Boston going to be their New England station?
RL757PVD From United States, joined Dec 1999, 2488 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6621 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1): The powers that be have started thread #5 for us
Yes, Diamond is quite swell
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1): 1) The 'new' Delta...do our airports lose further lift than we already have now that Northwest is in their grasp? Will they do to our service to DTW and MSP what they have already done to our service to ATL?
2) Will Southwest start service at Logan in 2009 or beyond?
3) Will Pease ever see commercial air service again? Is there an airline as willing as Skybus was to fly to obscure airports like Pease & Westover?
4) Virgin America...is Boston going to be their New England station?
Yes x 4 Though # 2 may not necessarily be in 2009, and id much rather #4 start with PVD since BOS already has 4 airlines on BOS-LAX!
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
B752OS From United States, joined Dec 2005, 985 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6599 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1): OK gang. The powers that be have started thread #5 for us here, and there are several topics of interest to New England:
1) The 'new' Delta...do our airports lose further lift than we already have now that Northwest is in their grasp? Will they do to our service to DTW and MSP what they have already done to our service to ATL?
2) Will Southwest start service at Logan in 2009 or beyond?
3) Will Pease ever see commercial air service again? Is there an airline as willing as Skybus was to fly to obscure airports like Pease & Westover?
4) Virgin America...is Boston going to be their New England station?
2) Wow, I really would be surprised if WN were to come into BOS and begin service. How likely could this actually be? The main benefit I could see would be them becoming the second carrier on BOS-PHX and BOS-BNA.
4) I think as others have reported, VX is going to have BOS as one of their next few stations by 2009. Yes, BOS-LAX has 4 carriers and 8 daily flights, but a 5th carrier would be just insane.
Jawake From United States, joined Sep 2007, 173 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6566 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1): 1) The 'new' Delta...do our airports lose further lift than we already have now that Northwest is in their grasp? Will they do to our service to DTW and MSP what they have already done to our service to ATL?
2) Will Southwest start service at Logan in 2009 or beyond?
If this indeed goes through, I see MSP being on the chopping block. I just do not see the new DL having feeds out of the Northeast to ATL, DTW, CVG & MSP & SLC. Either CVG or MSP will not continue, and I would think MSP would be downsized or disappear. CVG could face a similar fate. MSP, CVG turning into the next STL.
I just do not see WN going head to head with B6 in BOS. They have invested a lot in PVG & MHT, I just don't see the attraction for them to move to BOS.
PVD757 From United States, joined Aug 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 14 Reply 6, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6554 times:
Quoting Jawake (Reply 5): I just do not see WN going head to head with B6 in BOS. They have invested a lot in PVG & MHT, I just don't see the attraction for them to move to BOS.
a WN move into BOS would be to protect their interests in the region. It would be sort of like the IAD entry. I'd suspect you'd see BOS-MDW (3-4 flights), BOS-BWI (5-7), BOS-MCO (1-2), and maybe BOS-PHL.
Airbazar From United States, joined Sep 2003, 2902 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6547 times:
Quoting LH423, reply=297: Yeah, but I think this is a different case than DL starting service. Remember, they tried once before. It's hard to start service, especially when you're not on the mind of travellers when it comes to a certain market (i.e. Delta as a transatlantic airline out of Logan). But in this case, DL is walking into a well established market. NW's flight is largely O&D (on this end. I'm sure there are quite a few connections on KL out of AMS) and from all indicators appears to be pretty successful. I'm sure once DL is fully in the driver's seat they'll evaluate all the routes but I think the BOS-AMS route is safe.
Even though I'm a *A FF, I've grown accustomed to NW's AMS flight, and I especially like the late departure, so I'll be disapointed if we lose that. However, I would not be suprised if by next Summer these flights are gone. Of all the legagy carriers, no one is more hub centric than DL. They love to funnel all the traffic through either JFK or ATL. The fact that the BOS-AMS flight does well may not be a factor. Mergers are done to cut costs and if DL doesn't look at AMS as a hub like NW did, I would not be surprised at all to see the flight gone.
However, if the flight stays, I think it would be a huge irony, For years since the first stone was laid down for the new DL terminal at BOS, there's been debate and accusations that DL couldn't start international service from BOS because the bad guys of Massport wouldn't allow them to have immigration and customs facilities at terminal A. Now they find themselves in a position to have to decide on whether to cut existing international service or not
Quoting BOStonsox, reply=300: UA also flew BOS-LHR at one point but that didn't work, presumably from the lack of connections on either side.
IIRC, the primary reason for selling the LHR slots was to generate funds to avoid Ch11.
Jawake From United States, joined Sep 2007, 173 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6533 times:
Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6): a WN move into BOS would be to protect their interests in the region. It would be sort of like the IAD entry. I'd suspect you'd see BOS-MDW (3-4 flights), BOS-BWI (5-7), BOS-MCO (1-2), and maybe BOS-PHL.
just my 2 cents
Good point, and I can see the comparison with IAD and BOS.
I guess the difference for me is that IAD does not have a large LCC presence to begin with, where BOS has B6, even FL. I know IAD has B6, but still not as developed as BOS. But you maybe right, and if the right opportunity comes along, WN may just make the move to BOS.
B752OS From United States, joined Dec 2005, 985 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6531 times:
Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6): a WN move into BOS would be to protect their interests in the region. It would be sort of like the IAD entry. I'd suspect you'd see BOS-MDW (3-4 flights), BOS-BWI (5-7), BOS-MCO (1-2), and maybe BOS-PHL.
just my 2 cents
In my mind, it would just so weird to see WN flying into BOS. Anyways, I think the routes you mentioned makes sense. I think a WN entry into BOS would hurt both PVD and MHT. It would be nice to have a carrier back on BOS-MDW. I think WN would also do a BOS-BNA route as well.
ChrisNH From United States, joined Jun 1999, 2698 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6529 times:
It seems like airlines (at least Delta) are focusing on fewer, bigger cities. In the same way that Delta has largely drawn down MHT and PVD in favor of Boston, they've also drawn down Boston in favor of JFK. I guess it's the price the northeast pays for being so densely populated.
I'd like to say that it is 'unfair' for Delta to cut the number of seats between, say, MHT-ATL to a fraction of what it used to be, and then charge a king's ransom for the little RJ flights that still exist. But I stop well short of that, because Delta is a money-making business with stockholders. So, aside from being really disappointed to see the cutbacks this carrier has made here (and probably will make in the future), I'm not quite sure whether to be angry or shrug my shoulders and realize that we're lucky to have what we have.
United, to a degree, has followed the Delta model by ratcheting the number of seats at MHT/PVD downward.
I don't even know if a complete reversal in the price of aviation fuel would matter, because I sense that this is not all about that. Delta was cutting way back at MHT/PVD long before the oil thing became Topic #1.
ChrisNH From United States, joined Jun 1999, 2698 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6531 times:
Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6): I just do not see WN going head to head with B6 in BOS. They have invested a lot in PVG & MHT, I just don't see the attraction for them to move to BOS.
Officials at Southwest Airlines have decided that Shanghai will be its first international destination. In related news, the carrier will cease all service at Providence.
John From United States, joined Sep 1999, 1274 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6527 times:
What is the progress on the proposed PVD runway 5/23 extension? Have they agreed on the length yet?
Also, WN doesn't really need to fly to BOS and it especially doesn't make much sense right now, given the current economic downturn and soaring fuel prices.
RL757PVD From United States, joined Dec 1999, 2488 posts, RR: 13 Reply 13, posted (3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6517 times:
I dont think WN at BOS will shake things up too much, and i dont think it would hurt PVD/MHT much if at all. Any city theyd go to from BOS would probably be served by PVD. They dont have anyone to kill or anyone making massive cuts to grow like they have in DEN PIT or PHL. The interesting part would be FL sicne they have had a stronghold on that route for years now.
Im not sure about 2009, but I would actually put money on it happening within 5 years. PHL, MDW, MCO, PHX, BWI probably with a total of like 12-14x, whereas PVD has 27x to those cities.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
Jawake From United States, joined Sep 2007, 173 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6516 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 10): I'd like to say that it is 'unfair' for Delta to cut the number of seats between, say, MHT-ATL to a fraction of what it used to be, and then charge a king's ransom for the little RJ flights that still exist.
Don't get me started on this, $900 for MHT-ATL on DL, they are crazy. I have so wanted to see FL come in and compete on this route, but with the way things are right now, fat chance.
I think airports like MHT will have a hard time this year, Legacy Carriers are wanting to cut capacity across the country, and that I think will in effect hurt MHT, PVD, PWM, & BDL. And of that group, MHT & PVD will probably feel it the most. BOS has nothing to worry about.
B752OS From United States, joined Dec 2005, 985 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6504 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 13): I dont think WN at BOS will shake things up too much, and i dont think it would hurt PVD/MHT much if at all. Any city theyd go to from BOS would probably be served by PVD. They dont have anyone to kill or anyone making massive cuts to grow like they have in DEN PIT or PHL. The interesting part would be FL sicne they have had a stronghold on that route for years now.
Im not sure about 2009, but I would actually put money on it happening within 5 years. PHL, MDW, MCO, PHX, BWI probably with a total of like 12-14x, whereas PVD has 27x to those cities.
Which FL are route are you referring to? BOS-BWI? FL runs 8 x daily flights and it would be interesting to see what affect WN would have. It's interesting to see how BWI is the preferred gateway to D.C. for PVD and MHT.
Quoting Jawake (Reply 14): Don't get me started on this, $900 for MHT-ATL on DL, they are crazy. I have so wanted to see FL come in and compete on this route, but with the way things are right now, fat chance.
That's insane they charge that much. I know there is another person, PVD757 or FLPVD whichever one currently lives down in Altlanta, has mentioned extremely high prices on ATL-PVD. For that kind of money, you could buy a rountrip ticket to NRT or ICN!
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